pre-exhaust

View previous topic View next topic Go down

pre-exhaust

Post  Turpin on Sun May 02, 2010 2:41 pm

Ive been following x 1 weekly consolidated training for some time now ( a long time ) after progressing from a Mentzer influenced `ideal` pre-exhaust type routine.
By `progressing` I mean that as I was getting considerably stronger on the isolation exercise of the pre-exhaust I was getting considerably weaker on the compound movement so much so in fact that I was having to lower the resistance on the compound every time I increased the resistance on the isolation in order to get a rep or two out.
This led me to dropping certain exercises until over the years I am down to performing 2 compound movements only x 1 weekly , and have witnessed very good strength gains on such ( moreso when I `up` the intensity levels for a period with rest pause , negatives , static holds etc.)

Anyway , today I experimented with the inclusion of pec dec x press pre-exhaust , then after 2 mins rest chins & deadlifts.
Resulting in a press that saw only 1-2 reps with what I was previously capable of 6-8 with and a chin that was some 20lbs lighter than my usual for 5 reps !!! ( deadlifts were fine and seemingly unaffected ... great in fact )

Anyone explain ? ....is/would such be down to heightened neurological efficiency ? ... if not what else would have such an effect ( even on chins )
This has happened everytime I try a pre-exhaust.

T.

( nb; I understand that I should expect a reduced poundage on the compound movement , however the extent of the fatigue was overwhelming and I did not expect a carry over of such going into chins )
avatar
Turpin

Posts : 42
Join date : 2010-04-15
Location : UK

Back to top Go down

Re: pre-exhaust

Post  Dave S on Sun May 02, 2010 3:26 pm

Could be you nailed your chest,triceps, shoulders,that may have something to do with the chins being lower.The biceps had less help. This happens to me if I do a machine pullover ss/pulldowns. I try not to let it upset me. For me I have to adopt a So What additude so to speak, because Ive hit my whole torso and arms. Means to an end. Try your routine with chins first maybe. For myself I just do the pullover/pulldown by it self with leg press. If I do another exercie for my upper body I do dips,and alternate doing them first an next time last. This is what I do if I do the ideal routine from Hd 2. pale Oh and yes I think it is heightened neurological effect.


Last edited by Dave S on Sun May 02, 2010 3:44 pm; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : *)

Dave S

Posts : 17
Join date : 2010-04-21

Back to top Go down

Re: pre-exhaust

Post  Turpin on Sun May 02, 2010 3:48 pm

Thankyou for the reply Dave. Yep ... I understand that I most likely achieved what I set out to do in regards to creating sufficient stimuli by way of exhausting the working musculature ( albeit with drastically reduced resistance and/or reps .... which is probably what bothers most TBH ) , However it is the profound systemic effect the inclusion of ONE isolation exercise ( pec dec ) has over that which I normally do that has me asking .... does anyone else get similar response from such ?

I now feel/know that the 10 exercise TF routines of Dr Darden with the inclusion of various isolation work would simply see me on the floor or at best lifting less than my missus. lol! T.
avatar
Turpin

Posts : 42
Join date : 2010-04-15
Location : UK

Back to top Go down

Re: pre-exhaust

Post  Dave S on Sun May 02, 2010 6:29 pm

[quote="Turpin"]Thankyou for the reply Dave. Yep ... I understand that I most likely achieved what I set out to do in regards to creating sufficient stimuli by way of exhausting the working musculature ( albeit with drastically reduced resistance and/or reps .... which is probably what bothers most TBH ) , However it is the profound systemic effect the inclusion of ONE isolation exercise ( pec dec ) has over that which I normally do that has me asking .... does anyone else get similar response from such ?

I now feel/know that the 10 exercise TF routines of Dr Darden with the inclusion of various isolation work would simply see me on the floor or at best lifting less than my missus. lol! T.[/quote

.... does anyone else get similar response from such ? yes

Dave S

Posts : 17
Join date : 2010-04-21

Back to top Go down

pre exhaust

Post  Drew Baye on Sun May 02, 2010 6:53 pm

I used to do a lot of pre-exhaust, but no longer recommend it. I don't believe the arms are as much of a limiting factor in torso movements as proponents of pre-exhaust make them out to be - consider that just because a muscle is smaller (triceps compared to chest, or biceps compared to lats) does not mean it is weaker in a particular movement - the muscle cross sectional area is only one factor determining the usable strength of the muscle, with leverage being the other.

If a person finds they are not hitting the torso muscles effectively during a compound exercise I'd first look at how they were performing the exercise, since path of movement, grip position, grip width, etc. can have an effect on the relative involvement of different muscles.

Think of the effects on grip placement in a bench press: very narrow = more triceps, very wide = more chest (at the expense of ROM, though). In the case of that exercise, if you found a grip position that was correct for your arm length, shoulder width, etc. then pre exhaust wouldn't improve the exercise, it would only cause you to get less benefit from it for the other muscles involved due to having to reduce the weight.

_________________
Drew Baye
High Intensity Training and Nutrition for Bodybuilding, Fitness and Health
avatar
Drew Baye

Posts : 34
Join date : 2010-04-14
Age : 44
Location : Orlando, FL

http://www.baye.com

Back to top Go down

Re: pre-exhaust

Post  Turpin on Sun May 02, 2010 7:22 pm

Drew Baye wrote:I used to do a lot of pre-exhaust, but no longer recommend it. I don't believe the arms are as much of a limiting factor in torso movements as proponents of pre-exhaust make them out to be - consider that just because a muscle is smaller (triceps compared to chest, or biceps compared to lats) does not mean it is weaker in a particular movement - the muscle cross sectional area is only one factor determining the usable strength of the muscle, with leverage being the other.

If a person finds they are not hitting the torso muscles effectively during a compound exercise I'd first look at how they were performing the exercise, since path of movement, grip position, grip width, etc. can have an effect on the relative involvement of different muscles.

Think of the effects on grip placement in a bench press: very narrow = more triceps, very wide = more chest (at the expense of ROM, though). In the case of that exercise, if you found a grip position that was correct for your arm length, shoulder width, etc. then pre exhaust wouldn't improve the exercise, it would only cause you to get less benefit from it for the other muscles involved due to having to reduce the weight.

I agree Drew , and have used compound movements almost exclusively for a great many years now as a result.
Todays workout was indeed intended for chest/back so I guess exhausting the desired musculature with the pec-dec first acheived the means to the end , I just didnt expect such fatigue to be so profound that it had such a carry over to chins too . But then I think Dave covers it well in that the deltoid and pectoral involvement in the chin ( however minimal ) was negated by exhausting the pecs/delts/tris fully with pec-dec/press pre-exhaust , thus making the primary movers in the chin movement ( lats/biceps ) do the work almost unassisted.

Thanks for the reply , best wishes , T.
avatar
Turpin

Posts : 42
Join date : 2010-04-15
Location : UK

Back to top Go down

Re: pre-exhaust

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum